"Skrytá tajemství peněz"

23.4.2014

 

Jeden čtenář mi poslal upozornění na dokument "Hidden secrets of money", který otitulkoval slovenskými titulky a nazval "Peníze versus měna":

(další tři díly jsou zde)

Dokument je to zajímavý, pokud je čas, celkem doporučuji ke shlédnutí, ale jak se říká, s výhradami: dopouští se totiž několika zásadních manipulací v otázce funkce peněz v ekonomice a dalších "samo sebou rozumících se" otázek. Základní mnohokrát opakovaná mantra "toto je měna, a toto jsou peníze" je totiž lživá. Zlato nejsou peníze ve smyslu krve ekonomiky, zlato je pouhá hodnota - zatím...

Podobně jako třeba křišťálový lustr, obraz, archivní víno ... v principu se ničím neliší (pokud nyní nebrat v úvahu že je to surovina, užitečná v eletrotechnice a průmyslu), jen snadnou skladovatelností a historickou rolí invariantu, která je už ale navždy pryč. Podle logiky dokumentu se nabízí například otázka - jsou diamanty také peníze? Nekazí se a mají přece ještě lepší skladovatelnost a poměr velikost/cena.

Navíc ignoruje případy nekrytých měn, které katastroficky neskončily (naopak) a tím odvádí od základní věci - není to otázka krytí, ale otázka kvality řízení, tj. řízení množství peněz v oběhu v porovnání s množstvím hodnot, tj. zboží a služeb. Pokud se zvýší objem peněz, ale zároveň se zvýší i objem zboží a služeb, takže poměr zůstane zachován, k inflaci nedojde.

Před shlédnutím bych proto doporučoval seznámení s materiálem v sekci energoinvariant, jako mentální "antivirus", profylaktiku. Po faktologické stránce je ale dokument zajímavý a lze celkem doporučit.

 

Diskusní téma: "Skrytá tajemství peněz"

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len Vas chcem chlapci pochvalit

Kolodej | 28.04.2014

takto si nejak predstavujem debatu dvoch (a viacerych) nazorovych oponentov. Obohacujuce citanie.

pravé bankovníctvo

radiator | 24.04.2014

Peniaze musia byť kryté PRÁCOU. čiže ak by som si kúpil tovar za 1xy tak dostanem tovar na výrobu ktorého je treba vykonat prácu 1xy. Ak si za dnešné € kúpim niečo za 1€ tak si možem byť istý že cena práce na tovare je cca 0.1€ a 0.9€ je úžera, zisk, dividendy, niečo čo ide niekomu do vačku za nič! Krytie zlatom nič nevyrieši, akurát spomalí, princíp okrádania stále funguje.
http://pospolitost.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/bankova-mafia/

Re: pravé bankovníctvo

Hox | 24.04.2014

áno... a produktivita práce je daná energovybaveností pracovního místa. A jsme u jádra věci.

Re: pravé bankovníctvo

Pe-tri | 24.04.2014

A co s prací strojů, která dnes dělá většinu výkonů ?
A jak chcete měřit (a od změřeného oceňovat směnu zboží a služeb) tak různorodou (věcně, významově, zodpovědnostně ...) činnost jako je práce (jednotky, měřítka, souvztažnosti) ?
A nepřehlídněte, že svět evoluje směrem nárůstu duševní činnosti, nikoliv fyzické.
Jinak souhlas s tím, že dnešní stav je rovněž přežitý. Ovšem jeho hlavní problém nespočívá v krytí či nekrytí směnného prostředku tím či oním, ale v podvodně mocenském monopolu dolaru a připuštění obchodování s výmysly typu deriváty. Obojí pak vyrůstá a hlavy přerůstá z principu úroků. (Ne)krytí měny je prioritně hodně druhořadé.
P.

Re: Re: pravé bankovníctvo

Oracle 911 | 26.04.2014

Iste skutočný problém je frakčné rezervné bankovníctvo, kde sa úročí prakticky nič resp. dôvera v systém a v štát.
Pred 1971 v USA exponenciálny rast menovej zásoby aspoň limitoval zlatý štandard.
Pred rokom 1914, zas banky museli mať zásoby minimálne na 80%, kvôli runom na banku.

Komunizmus či občiansky plat veľmi ľahko môže doviesť k stagnácií resp. k degradácií. Niečo podobné sa udialo aj v Ríme.

Re: Re: pravé bankovníctvo

Dagmar | 15.11.2016

svět evoluje směrem

Svet ne evoluje, svet se vyviji smerem........Mame nadherna ceska slova a ne mezinarodni zprzneniny

diamanty

Ph4rmy | 24.04.2014

"Podle logiky dokumentu se nabízí například otázka - jsou diamanty také peníze? Nekazí se a mají přece ještě lepší skladovatelnost a poměr velikost/cena."

Diamanty nie sú absolútne vhodné ako platidlo pretože:
1. nie sú homogénne - líšia sa farbou, čistotou, výbrusom a váhou
2. sú ťažko deliteľné - nedá sa napr. rozdeliť 1 karát na 2 x 0,5
3. je veľmi náročné ich oceniť - úplne presne to vedia iba gemologické laboratória.


Pri farbe sa rozlišuje stupeň "znečistenia" diamantu žltou či hnedou a existuje na to stupnica od D (bezfarebný diamant) až po Z (žltý). Okrem toho existujú aj diamanty v iných farbách, ale tie sa vyskytujú tak zriedkavo, bežne sa ani neobchodujú (sú predmetom aukcií). Pri čistote sa zase meria stupeň znečistenia diamantu inklúziami (prasklinky, puklinky, drobné zafarbenia vnútri kameňa) a tiež na to existuje medzinárodná stupnica, ale hodnotí sa to dosť subjektívne. Aj preto je problematické nájsť čo i len 2 úplne rovnaké kamene.

Ešte jedna vec, obchod s diamantmi má pod palcom rodina Rothschildov, kontrolujú 57% ťažby a vykupujú produkciu cca 13 tisíc baní :-)

Re: diamanty

Hox | 24.04.2014

a v neposlední řadě - poptávka po diamantech je čistě umělá záležitost s cílem dojit "elitu" a zčásti střední třídu, v praxi je to akorát dobré v průmyslu, řezací kotouče atd... je velmi pravděpodobné, že "nedostatek" a "vzácnost" je udržována uměle.

Re: Re: diamanty

Vlk | 24.04.2014

a o tom umelem udrzovani to muzeme aplikovat skoro na vsechny "ne smyslne" komodity...masmedialni masove reklamy a kampane jsou toho dobrym dukazem...

Re: Re: diamanty

Ph4rmy | 24.04.2014

presne tak, na trh sa dostane iba obmedzené množstvo kameňov, väčšina produkcie končí v skladoch spoločnosti De Beers v Londýne, Johannesburgu a Lucerne. Tam sa diamanty roztriedia do cca 14 tisíc kategórií a predávajú sa iba 10x ročne. Týmto spôsobom sú ceny udržiavané relatívne vysoko. Je to výhodné pre ťažiarov, spracovateľov, obchodníkov a tiež investorov :-)

Re: Re: diamanty

Ferko | 26.04.2014

Možno je to s množstvom diamantov podobne ak s týmito kryštálmi.
http://www.purpulo.sk/purpuloviny/zaujimavosti/obrovske-jaskynne-krystaly-ktore-vam-vyrazia-dych/

Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Oracle 911 | 23.04.2014

Má v sebe priveľa zádrheľov:
Prvá a najdôležitejšia, predpokladá nepretržitú dodávku energonosičov, situácia na Ukrajine (varovanie ruskej strany ohľadom dodávok do EU cez Ukrajinu, alebo posledné kroky Ruska) poukazuje, že s tým nemôžeme rátať, toto je politický dôvod, technicky Jaroš ten Maidanista pohrozil, že vyhodí potrubia do luftu. Takže môže sa stať, že politická situácia sa povolí, ale po takomto čine ako dlho potrvá, kým sa obnoví infraštruktúra?
Podotýkam súčasné Ruské tajné služby sú možno najlepšie, ale poškodeniu infraštruktúry nedokážu zabrániť aj keby nešlo o teroristický útok.
Druhá, príliš sa spolieha na centralizovaný systémy. Mám teraz na mysli centralizované systémy dodávok a spoliehanie sa na centrálny manažment (aj) v prípade decentralizovaných energetických systémov.
Tretia vec, čo ak sa presadí systém na výrobu nekonečného množstva energie, energoinvariant a celý systém okolo neho sa stane zbytočnou.

Na druhú stranu 3 veci nemôžem odškriepiť:
-ekonomika je závislá od prúdenia energie;
-niektoré pravidlá sa musia určiť a vymáhať centrálne;
-súčasný stav vyhovuje len úzkej skupine "ľudí".

Takže energia áno, ale uskladnená teda využitá a preto podporujem komoditné meny a v tomto ohľade komoditné meny non plus ultra sú vzácne kovy vo forme odliatkov/mincí, pretože na ich výrobu bolo potrebné použiť veľké množstvo energie a sú ľahko prenášateľné a skladovateľné, v menšej miere to platí o ostatných kovoch. (Ostatné komodity ako poľnohospodárske produkty alebo ostatné mäkké komodity už nemajú takú výhodu.)

Lenže dá sa to povedať o elektrine, plyne a rope povedať, že sú ľahko uskladniteľné alebo ľahko skladovateľné?
Zďaleka nie všetky 3 potrebujú relatívne drahú a nákladnú infraštruktúru, pričom skladovanie každého z nich je problematické a keď k tomu prirátame premenu chemickej energie na elektrickú, tak máme obrovské straty.

Prosím Vás ale nechoďte na mňa že manažérske techniky tak, či onak alebo štatistika tak, či onak. Energoinvarianta veci len komplikuje.

Schodná cesta podľa mňa je:
-komoditné meny, najlepšie drahé kovy;
-100% krytie;
-clearing house, podľa potrieb.

Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Hox | 23.04.2014

v neskladovatelnosti el. energie je právě pointa, výhoda jako invariantu.
Otázka: jak bys chtěl nafukovat zlato, aby odpovídalo množství zboží a služeb v oběhu?

Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Oracle 911 | 23.04.2014

Prečo si myslíte, že neskladovateľnosť el. energie je výhoda?
Práve že opak je pravdou, lebo na manažment siete potrebujete nákladnú infraštruktúru a komplikované techniky manažmentu kvôli kolísajúcej spotrebe, preto jedna drobná chyba v manažmentu a môže padnúť celý systém. Pretože komplikovanosťou a veľkosťou el. systému rastú 3 veci, často exponenciálne:
-náklady na údržbu;
-straty pri prenosoch;
-šanca na katastrofu pri malej chybe či výpadku (teraz nehovorím o CME či o slnečných búrkach).
Ostatne je o tom aj článok. Nechoďte na mňa so štatistikami, lebo podľa tejto anekdoty:
"Štatistiky sú ako bikiny, podstatu zakrývajú, ale dovoľujú robiť závery."
Žiaľ v tomto prípade Udo a tí ktorí presadzujú energoinvariant došli k nesprávnemu záveru ohľadom spoľahlivosti el. siete. Pointa je, že zatiaľ nenastala kritická chyba či výpadok, to ale neznamená, že sa nemôže nastať.

A prečo by sa to malo nafukovať?
Deflácia je zlá len pre chronických dlžníkov, nie pre ekonomiky.
Ergo principiálne nie je problém, že za malý kus kovu kúpite veľké množstvo produktov t.j. tovaru a služieb, celá vec je len vecou nastavenia, ako to bolo pred 1. svetovou vojnou.

Re: Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

udo | 24.04.2014

Ja netvrdím, že okamžité zavedenie energoinvariantu by bolo pre tento "štát" hneď výhodné(viď štandard energozabezpečenia a problematika naśeho dovozu energonosičov).
No situácia dnešného banksterského systému bola vždy matematicky predprogramovanou apokalypsóu a nejaví sa byť zrovna alternatívou. Hoc aj vo forme krytia invariantu paritným košom nejakých komodít.

Ale na ťaźbu a spracovanie rúd, na výrobu poľnohospodárskych sTrojov, automatov a ich bežanie potrebujeś znova čo?
Presne..energiu..a dnes sa aj metre kubické plynu, ropa..všetko sa prepočítava na energopotenciál. Na kWh.

Účinnosť výroby elektriny z energonosičov, či účinnosťvýkonu ju spotrebuvajúcich strojov je len lokálny technický koeficient. Nič viac a nič menej. Žiadny problém, len prepočet technologickej vyspelosti. Hodnota objektivnej úrovne technológie.
Áno, v tomto zmysle sú technológie čiastočne tiež reálnou menou.
Prácou ľudského mozgu.

Jou..a ak vypadne distribučná sieť, ekonomika sa aj tak zastaví a peňazí tím pádom tiež netreba. Akurát netreba potom zbytočne umelo nasilu riadiť ešte aj to. Množstvo obeživa je proporcionálne takto algoritmicky jednoducho samoriadené. To je v zásade asi všetko..

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Oracle 911 | 24.04.2014

Keď vypadne sieť, ľudia budú robiť čo, fotosyntetizovať?
Ekonomika resp. výmena tovarov môže existovať aj bez elektrickej energie, lenže keď vypadne elektrina taká mena je nanič, pretože v takom prípade je podoprená ničím iným než dôverou v obnovenia činnosti.
Ako dlho potrvá obnova el. siete po plošnom výpadku? 5 rokov keď sme optimisti a 15 keď sme pesimisti a v tú dobu budú robiť čo, používať tú menu a veriť v skorú obnovu?

Viem, že súčasný banksterský systém je odsúdený k zániku, preto som hovoril o 100% krytí.
V praxi by to znamenalo koniec frakčných rezerv a tým pádom tlačeniu peňazí a nekonečnému "rastu".

Zostaňme pri mafií, Vy chcete jednu nikým nevolenú skupinu druhou, pričom "nikto z ulice" poriadne nevie čo a ako robia. Ako dlho by trvalo, kým túto povedzme štátnu inštitúciu by prevzali tá istá skupina hajzlov ktorú Vy tu a teraz zhadzujete?
Dlho asi nie, pretože ľudia predpokladajú, že tí tam hore sú morálnejší ako oni a často opak bude pravdou.
Takže bez možnosti okamžitej hĺbkovej kontroly zdola ani krok, a to umožňujú komoditné meny. Energoinvarianta to ale neumožňuje, lebo spolieha na štatistiky. Štatistika je presná veda o nepresných číslach, pre merania teda pre spoznávanie reality a pre riadenie spoločnosti OK, pre obchod na hocijakej úrovni je nepriechodné.
Neobstojí ani argumentácia, že sa dá to sledovať online, lebo nikto nezaručí, že tam uvedené čísla HDP sú správne. Nemám na mysli podvod ala štatistický úrad USA, ale len chybné či nesprávne koeficienty.
Neobstojí ani to, že občania budú takí uvedomelí, že sa stanú odborníkmi na túto problematiku resp. 2-4 priamo nesúvisiace oblasti. Problém nie je s uvedomelosťou, ale s kapacitami mysle a možným nedostatkom záujmu.

@ sporenie aby som odpovedal aj na ďalší príspevok.

Práve ste nechtiac uviedli najväčšiu demagógiu keynesianizmu (okamžitá, podľa možnosti rastúca spotreba bez rezerv) , pretože sporenie je odložená spotreba a nie nejaká zbytočnosť ktorá brzdí rozvoj ekonomiky. Na základe toho povedať 2 veci:
-pľundruje sa táto planéta a v energoinvariante, by ste toto pľundrovanie nezastavili, došlo by len k zmene dôvodov, a nie dôsledkov (vyrobiť viac zbytočných? tovarov);
-v čom by mali ľudia sporiť, v traktoroch, v konzervách, v termoskách a v motorových pílach?
Viem zniem ako demagóg, ale sú to dôležité problematiky, pretože nemôžete spoliehať na to, že sieť na dodávky el. energie resp. energonosičov budú vždy na 100%.

V MIM je energia nástrojom resp. znakom zmeny, urobiť z jej spotreby, či z úspory energie základnú mierku ekonomickej výmeny je ako urobiť to isté z kladiva. Áno v súčasnej dobe mieru ekonomickej aktivity môžeme merať spotrebou el. energie, ale na základe toho vydávať menu je hlúposť. Ako a kto zabráni tomu, aby sa úradne falšovali resp. sa uvádzali nesprávne dáta?

Platí maďarské príslovie:"Človek z ďaleka hovorí čo chce." A presne to vyjadruje problematiku dôvery, ako sa uistíme bez možnosti kontroly, aby sa dodržiavali pravidlá a boli pochytané "nedôveryhodné" indivíduá? Nič, lebo spoliehať v takýchto prípadoch na vesmír nie je práve najvhodnejšie, teda môže byť napáchaná obrovská škoda a nie nadarmo sa hovorí: "Božie mlyny melú pomaly ale isto."

Riadiť svetovú ekonomiku je ako riadiť biosféru Zeme, nedá sa lebo má svoje zákonitosti a efekt opičej pracky teda nechcených dôsledkov je dosť nepríjemná záležitosť.

Keď potom samoriadiace mechanizmy na základe jasných pravidiel.

Teda:
-komoditné meny (najlepšie kovy či "suché" komodity);
-100% krytie;
-a jasné pravidlá s možnosťou kontroly.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Hox | 24.04.2014

pokud vypadne elektrická síť a 5 let nepojede, bude problém měny hierarchicky někde na konci seznamu toho, co bude třeba řešit. Kromě toho, nejedná se o elektřinu jako platidlo v přímém smyslu, jak už jsme se o tom bavili. Viz ten článek "energoinvariant v praxi" a popis konkr. systému, který navrhuje Jefimov. Polopaticky: když budu chtít převést milión jednotek měny do austrálie, žádná energie se fyzicky nikam přemisťovat nebude. Jedná se jen u určení síly měny podle energovybavenosti, produktivity práce, což je měřeno spotřebovanou energií.. zkušenost a minulost ukazuje, že je to adekvátní vazba.

Také, jak bys při 100% krytých komoditních měnách chtěl zařídit, aby množství měny v oběhu vždy bylo adekvátní množství hodnot = zboží a služeb? Vždyť to je základní předpoklad udržitelného bezkrizového rozvoje. Množství měny v oběhu musí jít lehce měnit, aby odpovídalo hodnotám, jinak nastane deflace/inflace. Systém který popisujete není schopný globálně fungovat, neumožňuje to. Peníze jsou limitním zobecněním informace o provedené práci, nic víc, nic méně. Míchání dvou funkcí - měny, a úložiště hodnoty, je chyba.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Oracle 911 | 24.04.2014

Produktivita práce je dosť zavádzajúci pojem, "účinnosť využitia spotrebovanej energie na produktívnu prácu" je oveľa lepší pojem a to je zádrheľ celého systému, pretože zvýhodňuje 2 typy krajín:
-krajiny s veľkými energetickými rezervami;
-krajiny s veľkou "účinnosťou využitia spotrebovanej energie na produktívnu prácu".
To znamená Čínu, Rusko a Indiu, som ich fanúšikom, ale takýto systém by vytvoril neskutočne veľké nerovnováhy t.j. koncentráciu výroby na jednom mieste, háčik je ale, že spotreba je vždy lokálna a to by znamenalo, že by sme na tom boli horšie ako sme teraz. Ergo na jednej strane obrovský dopyt po produktoch na druhej strane len málokto to bude môcť dovoliť.

Preto hovorím o komoditných menách, lebo:
-odstraňuje rozdiely v "účinnosti využitia spotrebovanej energie na produktívnu prácu" (donucuje každého optimalizovať spotrebu energie, nielen u netto spotrebiteľa);
-limituje plytvanie so zdrojmi (k čomu by došlo v prípade energoinvariantu);
-lokalizuje produkciu aj spotrebu, tým pádom sa nastaví homeostáza každého regiónu (hospodáriť s lokálnymi zdrojmi);
-umožňuje prejsť na systém keď energia resp. energetické nosiče nebudú limitujúcim faktorom;
-umožňuje to občanom sporiť bez risku s konvertibilitou (odpoveď na otázku či podložiť niečim menu);
-neumožňuje (aspoň nie v takej miere) frakčné bankovníctvo. Buď tam tú vec máte v takom množstve ako hovoríte, alebo nie, ak nie sú problémy.

Medzinárodný obchod by prebiehal cez clearing house-y medzinárodných organizácií, a medzi regiónmi 1 štátu cez štátne clearing house-y.

Keby z toho čo hovorím nevyplynulo, som zástancom čo najväčšej decentralizácie, keď ide o ekonomiku a štátnu správu.

Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

udo | 23.04.2014

1.A naozaj potrebuješ skladovať menu Oracle?
.. dobre porozmýšľaj nad odpoveďou..
Cui bono..
Chceš azda umelú istotu "zabezpečenia",
kúpiť si nejakú "poistku"?

..isto..pri nedostatočnej viere spoloCnosti v samú seba a Jemu..
skladovanie práce je predsa nebezpečná ilúzia, či?
Nečinnosť, zastavenie je smrť..snaha zastaviť v objektívnej rieke života, zastaviť zmenu v nekonečnom procese transFormácie..
Na viere aj v túto ilúziu je postavený tento antihumánny systém.

2.Ak máš technológiu na získavanie takmer neobmedzeného množstva nejakej dostupnej energie, máš v tomto prípade niečo ako praktický komunizmus, ak chápeš :)
..teda pri dnešnej miere technologizácie

3.Kto vyrába elektrinu mimo verejnej siete, automaticky vyrába predsa tiež peniaze(napr. registrácia a obdržanie príslušnej "hotovosti"). Môže samozrejme aj kašľať na "verejné obeživo" a výrobky nedať na vonkajší trh, alebo spôsobiť všeobecne žiadanú, prospešnú defláciu predajom svojich výrobkov, v ktorých je v nejakej forme energia nevyhnutne obsiahnutá.

Všetko sa dá prepoćítať na energiu(transformáciu). O koeficientoch účinnosti sa dá diskutovať, hľadať konsenzus, ktorého odchýlky sú logicky obecne prijateľné. Ide len o stratu v dôsledku akuálnej miery optimalizácie v transformačnom procese.
Vieme predsa, že energia je aj prechodný udržateľný stav hmoty pri transformácii z jedného agregátneho stavu hmoty do iného.
Od "matérie" sa oddeliť nedá.
Tak ako vlna od častice, ak chápeš Oracle.

Svetová ekonomika predsa vždy bude riadená a vždy budeš od nej v tej-či onej miere závislý..
V globalizovanom svete niet kam utiecť a to je dobre.
Sme donútení okolnosťami, Ním..bojovať za jeho lepšiu formu, normu.

Vieš, že neriadené systémy v celom známom UniVerse neexistujú. Samoriadenie je len formou riadenia. Tichý, alebo ohlásený konsenzus, úzus dosiahnutia rovnako tichých, alebo verejných cieľov. Nič sa nedeje "samo sebou". To je skutočná konšpirácia v dnešnom zmysle slova.

Svet sa postaviť na lži pod lampou snažili,
no ich "čas" skončil a vlak im ušiel.
Azda sme sa z fragmetov ich sveta
stále ešte na nedostatočnú učili?

Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Lin | 24.04.2014

Oracle, nesouhlasím.
Jak píše HOx ve svém komentáři pod článkem, "zlato je pouhá hodnota - zatím". Já dodávám, že "hodnota" podle toho, jakou jí lidé hodnotu přisoudí - tj. dneska může být obrovská, zítra pouhý "barevný nerost".
Jakousi "hodnotu" zlatu přisoudila biblická koncepce a já marně hledám nějaký logický důvod, proč zrovna zlatu. Jakési "mystické" vysvětlení mi poskytl Sidorov, jinak není žádný důvod používat jakýkoliv "nerost" jako měřítko bohatství či chudoby.
Biblická koncepce tuto "hodnotu" zavedla, není tedy jediný důvod, abychom v tom pokračovali i nadále - pokud chceme alternativní a spravedlivější koncepci.
K čemu vedl "zlatý standart" - to vidíš jak v minulosti, tak dneska v okolním světě. Státy s nejmenší produkcí a tvůrčím potenciálem spotřebovávají vše, co produktivní a tvůrčí svět vyrobí.

Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Hox | 24.04.2014

náhodou? byl v den publikace toho článku publikován článek o oznámení plánů na skutečný invariant tak, jak ho chápe KSB: http://oko-planet.su/finances/financesnews/239950-shagi-na-puti-k-raschetnoy-edinice-ruan-rubl-yuan-yeni-mesaj-turciya.html (google to celkem obstojně přeloží do EN)

Klíčová formulace je: pracovní název nové předkládané měny je "energozabezpečená valuta". Hlavní v její ceně není vyprodukovaná, ale SPOTŘEBOVANÁ ENERGIE, protože jen vazba platebních nástrojů k ceně spotřebované energie dává představy o negativních specifikách zpětné vazby, hraje toli indikátoru ekonomických procesů a podporuje stabilní (udržitelný) rozvoj při normálních podmínkách. Přitom objem emise platebních nástrojů koreluje s objemem energ. zdrojů, které vnesly svůj vklad do ekonomického systému.

z článku vyplývá, že je to parametry přesně ten systém, který v nedávné přednášce popisoval Jefimov.

Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Kyborg | 24.04.2014

Keď sa nad tým zamýšľam, tak zamestnanci najprv mesiac sptrebuvávajú svoju osobnú energiu a až potom je im spočítaný čas a sú odmenený.

Ale ak by sa všetko meralo spotrebovanou energiou, ako by sa hodnotila mentálna tvorivosť? Maliari, programátori (merať len spotrebu PC mi nepríde relevantné), inžinieri...

Re: Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Oracle 911 | 24.04.2014

Relevantné otázky.
Síce som to nespomínal, ale aj tieto sú dôvody prečo je energoinvariant zlý nápad.

A prečo preferovať komoditné meny, v najhoršom prípade barter (v istom zmysle aj kúsky zlata sú barterom), ako nejaká len mysľou uchopiteľná invarianta.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Hox | 24.04.2014

Jsou to relevantní otázky, je jasné že měřit básníka spotřebovanou energií se nikdo nechystá. Jde o makropohled, celkový obrázek. A k tomu dvě fakta. V roce 89 byla spotřeba el. energie na hlavu a rok v USA 2x vyšší než v SSSR. Zároveň byla 2x vyšší produktivita práce. Náhoda?

Prvotní otázka asi zní: je třeba měnu něčím fyzickým podkládat? Je to a) třeba a b) dobrý nápad?
A odpověď na obě otázky zní "ne". Problém je v podvodném systému založeném na úroku a frakčním bankovnictví, což odsává přes úrok a složený úrok peníze z ekonomiky, nikoliv v nepodložené měně. Jak už jsem psal, je to otázka kvality řízení, aby nevznikla inflace, nikoliv podložení/nepodložení měny.

Re: Re: Re: Nie som zástancom energoinvariantu.

Kolodej | 28.04.2014

pri umelcoch ani teraz nemerias ich tvorbu. Neplatis ich podla spotrebovanej farby ci casu spievania a hrania:) Hodnota ich tvorby je zalozena na "ochote" kupujuceho zaplatit za nim videnu hodnotu. To moze fungovat kludne aj v pripade energo..

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